Friday, September 21, 2007

Herbert

a Jesus thought...
When Jesus went out He saw a great multitude; and He was moved with compassion for them, and healed their sick. (John 14:14)

a Godly thought...
It's very hard to have a prophetic ministry to the group that provides your salary. (p217 Frost & Hirsch)

a leading thought...
Leaders aren't made or born, they are self-made - leadership is a function of choices. (p62 Covey)

a Dave thought...
John Cleary states in Boundless Salvation that in 1901, the year of Federation of Australia, The Army was represented as 0.81% of the population.
If we had just kept that stat in line with population growth 170,100 Salvationists would be present in Australia today, but currently we have 19,000 of 21 million Australians willing to be labelled a Salvo.
It seems after 21 years we were at our peak and Herbert Booth was going rampant as he was a risk taker and apostle who at the age of 34 to 39 had led the Salvation Amy in Australasia through an amazing era of growth.
Thomas McKie then followed aged 42 -49, then James Hay who led the Country from age 44 till age 56.
Risk taking and age seem to go hand in hand and so maybe to get back to .81% we somehow need to engage younger leaders in our decision making and leadership. I propose we scout the land for a few more Herberts and put them in major positions of responsibility, as we either continue the decline or engage in some risks worth taking.


Just a thought.

11 comments:

Anonymous said...

Come on Dave, age and risk taking will not turn the ship around anymore than will self-made leaders. Time to get back to the basis for all our thinking and acting, namely an imagination that is biblically and theologically formed. Rather than seeking inspiration in Covey we need to be confronted by the biblical story and allow it to challenge our constructions of leadership. In God's economy the Spirit is among his people and His future is among the regular, ordinary people of God. It's not primarily in great leaders or experts, the entrepreneur, the super leader with wonderful plans for the salvation of the organization, but among the people, all those people most leaders believe don't get it. Throughour Scripture God's future comes from the bottom up in the most unlikely people and places.What's needed is a cultivation of fresh ways of engaging and indwelling Scripture.
WJE

Anonymous said...

Caught in the middle ....

As a "secular" organisation, TSA's leadership structure is antiquated - imagine having a leader at the top of a hierarchical org that has a 3 year window of opportunity to do anything? Only Jesus could do anything in 3 years, the rest of us need a bit more time.

As a "supernatural" organisation, TSA is also found wanting. Too focussed on status, position, statistics, numbers - I agree with anonymous - TSA has forgotten God's Mustard Seed Economy. He likes to work with Grass Roots "Losers", not necessarily those in man made positions of power.

TSA - choose one or the other: get some good long standing leaders and implement a "Strategic Plan", or get rid of human made hierarchies and start hanging with the meek and those at Grass Roots.

Andrew Philp

Anonymous said...

I am getting somewhat tired of having the younger generation continually knocking the older generation. If it were not for the older generation TSA would not have survived at all over recent years. We are the ones who have hung in there when the going was tough and we have worked hard and tirelessly for the Kingdom of God and many of us do not just come on Sunday and sit through a meeting - we are out and among the community just as much as the younger generation and doing all we can to witness and bring others to Christ. A great number of us have taken our lead from the Scriptures and will continue to do so as it is the only reliable source of information regarding God's work. If we got back into the Word a bit more maybe we could see the worth of any generation. As the previous writers have said Jesus used the odinary (not the learned) of His day to do HIs greatest work. Anyone who is open to the leading of the Spirit can be effective in bringing people to Christ. May He continue to use us all as a united force to bring in HIS Kingdom.

Anonymous said...

I am getting tired of the older generation having a chip on their shoulder about the younger generation continually knocking the older generation!! The last time I looked, I made no comment about any generation - instead I commented on christian based organisations and the way they operate. I commend any Salvationist who has given Spirit inspired service in the work of TSA over many years. On the other hand, I have contempt for anyone who cannot take criticism for a movement that they belong to that isn't "moving" like it did 100 years ago ... and contempt for anyone who is trying to throw blame across the generations.

Andrew Philp

Anonymous said...

I want to slightly amend my previous post ....

I understand the the commenter may have been making a comment on DC's blog rather than my response. ... However, taking a good hard look at ourselves is not a bad thing. Herbert was an amazing man, and if still alive today would be older the the "somewhat tired of having the younger generation .." commenter.

Age may not have anything to do with risk taking and dynamic leadership - so where are all the dynamic and risk taking leaders now? they're doing their own thing or working with organisations that will give them a go!!

Andrew Philp

Anonymous said...

The shape of Christian leadership in any particular location is a matter of historical antecedents and deep cultural values. Both affect our present understanding. Herbert, like us, was a man of his day. We live in a different context which requires a different approach. Paul's account in Ephesians 4 reminds us that the purpose of Christian leadership is to form and equip a people for the work of ministry and who demonstrate and announce the purpose and direction of God through Jesus Christ. Such leadership, through the agency of the Holy Spirit, works to create a people whose life is a witness to Jesus Christ. All such leadership must be shaped by the Gospel. Leadership requires courage and perseverance and requires integrity and spiritual maturity. Christian leadership must be biblically shaped and theologically grounded. Why? Because we need leads who can think deeply about the faith in a contextual and significantly theological manner in order to nourish God's people in such a way as to enable them to faithfully witness to the gospel in todays world.
WJE

james said...

wow, you've got some response here Dave!

I dont care how old a leader is, as long as they are switched on and get the results!

Theres a few problems we have here. We put people in leadership positions once people are passed their prime. i mean seriously, who has more energy when they are 60 than when they were 50?

Also, if we aren't putting younger people in leadership positions earlier how are they going to learn to be good? Are we just expecting people to be naturally good at all forms of leadership? Corps officer leadership is alot different to divisional or territorial leadership!

Other problems are that gernerally speaking, the boomers and older aren't doing well with Gen X and Y's. There is such a difference in values, and thinking...

Good leaders see what they are good at. What they can do and if they cant do something they facilitate other people to do it. Thats the sort of leadership that we need!

And finally, just because someone is younger and in leadership doesnt mean they wont have a mentor. it doesnt mean we are missing out on the wisdom of the older! Mentoring is huge these days! Young people want mentors, they want to do well! They want to learn!

Your stats dave are very interesting!

good post dave!

james said...

Also, check out commish Harris blog for his take on this... It sounds to me like hes got it pretty good. Both Old and young people have abilities and disabilities... We need to use the right ones...

SALVO CADET ON A MISSION - FOR THE WORLD AND THE SALVOS TO BE REVOLUTIONIZED FOR JESUS!!! said...

Whether we think we need to be proactively searching for younger leaders right now or not, the reality is, its going to need to happen in the near future. The rate of entries into officership aren't keeping up with the retirees.

But James does have a valid point about Gen Xr's & Gen Y's coming from a completely different mindset - if we want to connect with these younger generations, we need to either have people who are great at cross-generational leadership or find some leaders of their generational perspective.

Personally I love what Herbert brought to the table because of his prophetic risk-taking... I guess you could also call it 'mega-faith'. Lets get some more of that, because it relies on Gods input, not human experience!

Anonymous said...

The GenX & GenY era is one that the materialistic worldly attitudes ate into what these people used to value. It has nothing to do with those who were ministering to them. Many who were really switched on to God tried desperately to hold and to help these generations but no matter how hard one tried pastorally and spiritually they made their own
choices. I have members of my own family in these generations who made those choices. We have done our best both in witnessing and in prayer and continue to do this but the choice ultimately has to be theirs. Nothing would delight me more than to see them as enthusiastic for God and for His work than me (and their parents and friends) but the mighty dollar becomes their god in many circumstances and somehow sadly they no longer see their need for
God. They think they are doing quite Ok thank you - how sad this is. Our challenge and our mission and passion is to win them back to the Lord - we do all we can but they still have to make the choice for themselves.We have not abandoned them and never will. It is our God given responsibility to try and win them back to Him. I accept anyone of any generation and love them all for the sake of the Kingdom. God helping me I will win some. All generations need our love and care not only GenX & GenY but the young the old and in-between. May we all do our part to win the lost to Christ. His message of salvation is still for the whosoever and may He use us to convey this message.

Anonymous said...

OK, Heard it alll before. I keep meeting "older" Salvationists who got enrolled to be in musical sections and have no idea what they're about. I'm a little over the "old for wisdom and the new for energy" routine.

Bite the bullet; this isn't a rennovation - it's a redevelopment!